COVID-19 Rant

[zelmo73]

Maybe a simpler way to explain it:

"What the CDC published shows that 6% of coronavirus deaths were from COVID-19 alone while the other 94% of deaths had underlying factors, and while the percentages are true, it doesn't mean the 6% is the real COVID-19 death count. It means those are the only deaths where patients had no other pre-existing conditions."

https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/09/03/trust-index-is-the-cdc-exaggerating-the-number-of-americans-killed-by-covid-19/

E.g., someone who has, say, asthma has an underlying condition (co-morbidity) that makes COVID fatal for them, whereas the same infection might not kill a perfectly healthy person. In every death listed as a COVID death, COVID is the primary cause of death. People with underlying health conditions are more at risk, but that's not different than any other illness.

It's weird how the 1.1% death rate for the U.S. hasn't changed from last year to this year though.

196,000 people have died from COVID in the U.S. There are 328 million people in the U.S. For the death rate to increase by %0.1, 328,000 people would have to die.

Except that according to the CDC, only 6% of that 196,000, or 11,760 people actually died from COVID-19. The rest only had COVID-19 in their system when they died. So how did COVID-19 positive George Floyd die again?

[Alex]

From a fact checker.

"I think a more reliable way of assessing the deaths attributable to Covid is to look at the excess over historical overall death rates," Little suggested. The U.S. has so far had more than 200,000 more deaths than it would in an average year, according to a Science Alert examination of CDC data.

"When we try to understand that, COVID-19 is the most rational and likely explanation. If you don't believe it's COVID-19, try to pinpoint why this year has been so different than any other. Why would a new disease that kills people not be the cause?" argued Justin Lessler, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins University.
Our ruling: False

It is false and misleading to claim that only 6% of reported coronavirus deaths were the result of COVID-19. While comorbidities often exacerbate a person's illness from the coronavirus, it is incorrect to state that they are the cause of death rather than the viral infection. We rate this claim FALSE.

Go on, give us a laugh and tell us where you think those extra 200,000 deaths have came from.

[zelmo73]

It is false and misleading to claim that only 6% of reported coronavirus deaths were the result of COVID-19. While comorbidities often exacerbate a person's illness from the coronavirus, it is incorrect to state that they are the cause of death rather than the viral infection. We rate this claim FALSE.

So the CDC lied, eh? Interesting that you never link us to any of these "fact checkers" of yours, Alex. 

[Alex]

Funny how you never answer the question being asked. Or in the past when I've asked you for links you have failed to provide them. Why should I do this for you if you can't do the same. If you care to check back over previous posts though you will find that I have posted plenty of links to back up my statements.

So I ask you again, why are the average deaths for Americans almost 200,000 higher this year so far?

[Rev. Powell]

It is false and misleading to claim that only 6% of reported coronavirus deaths were the result of COVID-19. While comorbidities often exacerbate a person's illness from the coronavirus, it is incorrect to state that they are the cause of death rather than the viral infection. We rate this claim FALSE.

So the CDC lied, eh? Interesting that you never link us to any of these "fact checkers" of yours, Alex. 

The fact-checker isn't saying the CDC lied. The CDC never claimed "only 6% of reported coronavirus deaths were the result of COVID-19" and the claim that they did (as circulated in social media memes) is FALSE. That's what Jim and Alex and I have been trying to explain, apparently without success.

Again, the CDC did not make the claim you keep repeating. It's a misinterpretation of what the CDC said that was circulated in social media.

Here's another couple of explanations: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/cdc-did-not-admit-only-6-of-recorded-deaths-from-covid-19/

https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2020/9/1/21417579/cdc-qanon-covid-19-underlying-cause-death-certificate

I don't think any more links would be helpful at this point.

[zelmo73]

It is false and misleading to claim that only 6% of reported coronavirus deaths were the result of COVID-19. While comorbidities often exacerbate a person's illness from the coronavirus, it is incorrect to state that they are the cause of death rather than the viral infection. We rate this claim FALSE.

So the CDC lied, eh? Interesting that you never link us to any of these "fact checkers" of yours, Alex. 

The fact-checker isn't saying the CDC lied. The CDC never claimed "only 6% of reported coronavirus deaths were the result of COVID-19" and the claim that they did (as circulated in social media memes) is FALSE. That's what Jim and Alex and I have been trying to explain, apparently without success.

Again, the CDC did not make the claim you keep repeating. It's a misinterpretation of what the CDC said that was circulated in social media.

Here's another couple of explanations: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/cdc-did-not-admit-only-6-of-recorded-deaths-from-covid-19/

https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2020/9/1/21417579/cdc-qanon-covid-19-underlying-cause-death-certificate

I don't think any more links would be helpful at this point.

At least the CDC is admitting that they are reporting presumed (made-up) COVID deaths as well:

COVID-19 deaths are identified using a new ICD–10 code. When COVID-19 is reported as a cause of death – or when it is listed as a "probable" or "presumed" cause — the death is coded as U07.1. This can include cases with or without laboratory confirmation.

[Alex]

Still waiting on that explanation for the 200,000 extra deaths.

[zelmo73]

Still waiting on that explanation for the 200,000 extra deaths.

What 200,000 extra deaths? Where did you get that number?

[RCMerchant]

Still waiting on that explanation for the 200,000 extra deaths.

What 200,000 extra deaths? Where did you get that number?

Are you really that dense?

[Leah]

Still waiting on that explanation for the 200,000 extra deaths.

What 200,000 extra deaths? Where did you get that number?

Are you really that dense?

Reminder that the spread of Covid is based on two things: How dense the population is and how dense the population is.

[RCMerchant]

Still waiting on that explanation for the 200,000 extra deaths.

What 200,000 extra deaths? Where did you get that number?

Are you really that dense?

Reminder that the spread of Covid is based on two things: How dense the population is and how dense the population is.

 

[pacman000]

Correlation != Causation

I've heard an increase in the unemployment rate correlates with an increase in the death rate, but I won't claim unemployment causes the increased number of deaths; saying that would require more research.

[zelmo73]

Correlation != Causation

I've heard an increase in the unemployment rate correlates with an increase in the death rate, but I won't claim unemployment causes the increased number of deaths; saying that would require more research.

There is also the misplaced logic being used; that approximately 200,000 COVID-ish deaths is added to the "normal" death rate. But since the "normal" death rate has certainly been altered due to the majority of the U.S. being locked down, shut in, and/or unemployed, then those "normal" death rates have also certainly been altered. I'm just curious as to where Alex is seeing that additional 200,000 deaths.  

[Rev. Powell]

This board isn't a debating society and we're really getting nowhere, just causing hard feelings.

Might I suggest this registering for this board if you'd like to debate about the CDC and statistics?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=502436b6948ccf5f57e2e20f86254db2&t=344976 - general coronavirus science thread

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=502436b6948ccf5f57e2e20f86254db2&t=344976 - covid and politics thread

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341856 - coronavirus conspiracy theory thread

[bob]

I FINALLY GOT MY PANDEMIC UNENEMPLOYMENT 

I'm not sure if I got everything that's coming to me, but the state website said that they'll be mailing me instructions incase I got shortchanged so I can retroactively make claims